There is a large parcel of land, just South of Belleview, that a group of developers are looking to turn into a major gambling facility.
In fiscal year 2006-07, wagering on jai alai, greyhound racing, horse racing and card rooms in Florida was $1.6 billion. Of that, gross receipts from card rooms was $44 million, or 3 percent. The handle from live sports betting includes the amount that still has to be distributed to purses and winning betters.
Can this help Marion County?
Will our County Commissioners support this project?
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46 comments:
Dead on arrival !
Paramutuel licenses are difficult to get, very difficult.
The Christian right will fight it tooth and nail. I can see it all now,"prostitution gangsters " bla bla-bla bla. Look what has happened, or is not happening, in DeBarry with a proposed race track.
Ocala Thoroughbred Breeders and sales will fight it to protect their struggling Off Track Betting facility [what a dump ] and Jai Lai OTB and cardroom.
I am sure we will hear the tired hue and cry about jobs and economic developement- bla bla-bla.
Suggestion, use the land for real economic developement, secure some green industry like solar manufacturing which will have economic incentives from the Obama administration.
I can't believe that this is for real.
Clayton Ellsworth
Clayton,
Gambling can provide quite a bit of tax receipts to the county and state. Why not give the Belleview gambling a try? The county and state sure as heck need the added money. If people want to gamble let 'em. If they want to smoke let 'em. If they want to drink alcohol let 'em. But be sure the tax is so high that it discourages the activities and benefits those governments that need the money.
From the Scott Farrell Talk Radio Show Blog---a REAL talk show host:
"Florida is known for Gambling on Its Future - Why Not let Gambling Pay for Part of That Future"
As I write this post, a good number of folks are sitting and enjoying themselves at blackjack and craps tables in Hard Rock Casinos in Tampa and South Florida (Home of the Anna Nicole Smith Suite). More importantly they are generating tax dollars for our revenue strapped state. Revenue that could be used to shore up the State Universities reeling from another round of budget cuts.
At the same time the current Florida Attorney General is wasting tax payer dollars trying to shut down black jack and craps at these locations. The Attorney General has no jurisdiction over the Hard Rock Casinos, since they both reside on Native American Reservations and are subject to Federal Law. He knows this AND still is committed to wasting tax payer dollars to grandstand against casino gambling.
Every taxpayer in Tampa Bay should be doubly upset with the Attorney General, since expanded gambling at the Tampa Hard Rock Casino will increase tourism, and with it tax revenue, at a time when our community is being battered by the recession.
It is laughable that a State that sanctions a gambling lottery, horse racing, dog racing, and jai lai would have anything to say about blackjack or craps.
The Attorney General needs to spend more time chasing down criminals and less time chasing away tax revenue.
anonymous 8:14:
it does sound funny if the state allows all this other kind of gambling why wouldnt it allow casinos. as a former junket rep for the sands casino and professional football handicapper i know the money that gambling generates. on the other hand i have seen how gambling affects people in a negative way. if we use the argument that people should be aloud to do what they want we can then argue that we should legalize prostitution. some would say ok. this is an issue that politicians should look at with hard data. #1 is it immoral to gamble, cant find out where in the bible it says it is. 2nd: we know that there is an increase in crime and prostitution and alcoholism associated with gambling. weigh the stats and present to the people to see if they want the good for the bad. will it generate that much more income to improve our quality of life in Marion County. 3rd: if a sin is a sin then gambling is gambling and then all gambling should be banned in marion county including bingo for the vets, knights of columbus, elks, moose, eagles etc.... Will it get supported, yes and no. I think it is a 3-2 vote with mcclain definetly saying no and either stone or amsden saying no. fitos yes, payton already has his seat at the slot machine. I am glad i am not a politician on this one. you can argue both ways. i do know that my church says that we should never put people in the occassion of sin, but is gambling a sin if done in moderation. Jesus did pass out wine as his first miracle... after all the guests were drunk. Good theological debate coming
Peace
Bobby D
Florida is already expanding gambling, so why not in Marion County. Powerball starts this week. BTW it will eat into the revenues of the Florida Lotto. Great move on the part of the higher ups in Tallahassee. Less money for education. UGH!!!
Black Jack,and others.
Pleast read my post thoroughly. I did not say I was for or against a casino. I said it is not going to happen because of heavy opposition.
I know what the arguments pro and con are going to be and I suggested a few.
At this time, in a recession that is certain to get much worse, I think that it is very doubtful that a casino will be built.
By the way, who is the money behind this venture ? The public should know this fact.
Clayton Ellsworth
Thoughts to ponder :
1. Revenues at OTS off track betting off 22%
2. Revenues in Las Vegas are way down, casinos going bankrupt.
3.Atlantic City struggling, Donald Trump close to default on loans and bonds {again]
4.Florida off shore tours suffering, rumors of failure of some tours
In other words, this is not 2005 or 2006.
Hard times have not increased gambling as in the past. To ignore this fact is to work with a faulty business model, to offer bogus pro-forma representations.
Clayton Ellsworth
anonymous:
"Less money for education ugh". that is exactly what we need. the education system in america is a total disaster. according to the department of education approx 10% of children inthe public education system have been physically sexually harrassed by a school employee. way to protect our children. it makes the catholic church situation look like fly on a dogs butt. so if casino gambling takes money away from the secular humanist public education system and would ultimatly take the responsibility of educating our children away from the goverment and back to the parents, where it belongs, maybe it would be a good thing. it would be the lesser of 2 evils.
Merry Christmas
Bobby D
PS Clayton, we already have solar companies in Marion County and they are dying. Lets not bring more in, let the ones that are here make some money.
Clayton, I would like to know who is behind new venture also!!
In my opinion this is yet another way to inflict more financial burdens on people already unable to pay their bills! It's an addiction to most who gamble and very few beat the odds! It's an addiction! Rule of thumb: The House Always wins, it is set up that way by the Casino bosses! They dangle a carrot and sadly, people dont walk away when they are ahead, I have witnessed this myself!
BTW, the Lottery was set up to help finance our schools, it doesn't appear to have helped very much!
Follow the money :
The application for casino's has been a corrupt process. Think, Governor Edmond Edwards of Lousiana now serving time for kick backs from DiBartolo in Tampa who then had to give up his ownership of the West Coast NFL franchise.
Seminole chiefton Billie, now deposed, spread all kind of money around to get Seminole casino licenses in Florida.
Does anybody here remember the local Classic Mile racetrack debacle in the late 1980's ? A friend of mine, a racetrack consultant from Lexington, looked at Classic Mile and walked away from them as he spotted a sham, hidden money, which disappeared after his visit.
Every effort will be made by "the developers" of the Marion County casino to conceal ownership. I doubt that we will ever know the facts, just as I doubt that we will ever see this casino.
For those who want to throw money away, you now have powerball to play. You still have the pathetic off track betting shop run by OBS. I wonder if 3-D glasses would help the large screen projections they have there ? You still have the card room at Citrus. You can still go on line and gamble the family fortunes away.
Clayton Ellsworth
If the property for the Belleview gambling facility is not near a church, school or day care center, it will get approved by a 4-1 vote--especially if it is a developers project. That could make the vote unanimous. It may not get as much opposition as Clayton thinks.
Name which 4?
I say 3-2
fitos payton and ?
mcclain no
Stone will not support it either!
3:09 PM
All but McClain.
BULL !!
I have just spoken to the Board of Commissioners and zoning commission.
They know nothing about a proposed Casino in Marion County.
As I said in my first post on January 4th. "I can't believe this is for real "
Me thinks, somebody is floating a trial balloon.
Next subject, this one is bogus.
Clayton Ellsworth
Wow! you spoke with every County Commissioner and every zoing Board member? I think not! And that doesn't sound like something Clayton Elsworth would say? I call bogus on the anon 9:01 am post!
Clayton is it really you?
I spoke to spokes people who knew nothing.
How about some facts. Who are the developers ? I asked in a post who the money is- no response.
Let's quit blowing smoke, OK. If you have genuine knowledge then let's see some supporting facts.
Clayton Ellsworth
Clayton:
Sorry you arent privey to information. it is also the problem with the gainsville star banner. this is another story, a group of people wanting to buy the brown property for a card room, that the gainsville star banner wont go out do research on. just like the story about jackie porters boyfriend ray finn and where do his kids go to school, like the mayor of belleview publicly saying she rents and apartment and has for 3-4 years but still gets her homestead exemption and the banner wont report it. so we possibly have 2 politicians one might have a live in boyfriend who has his kids in the wrong school and a mayor who gets a homestead exemption on a house that she didnt live in for 3-4 years and publicly says so and files her campaign treasury report with her apartment but the banner does nothing. Clayton, there are people looking to buy the property, and other things, dont rely on the banner for your news, its months old. also, i call the banner with the info, they wont touch it
Tje Banner will be non-existent in a year! If anyone had guts they would start a new paper! Gambling is coming folks, you watch! How can you even doubt such a thing. We now of Slots-of-donations in two locations. Establishmenst full of slot machines were a small portion of the funds go to charities! We have off-trac betting, Jai-jali, poker, you can be nieve if you think in the next 5 years marion County will not have Gambling!
Bobby D,
You sight no facts. You pride yourself in knowing whats going on. Who are these people ? What color is their money ?
I don't depend on the Star Banner. Can I depend on you for facts ?
The spokes person for the commissioners who answered 438-2323 at 8:45 AM said it sounded "like one of hundreds of rumors", he responds to.
Clayton Ellsworth
Clayton:
whatever. bob foricor, the guy that answers the phones for the county, isnt the end all and be all of information of the county commissioners. he doesnt answer thier cell phones. you dont have to believe a word i write or say, so be it. believe me i wont lose any sleep over it. i cant help it clayton that you arent privey to any information, just because you dont get it for yourself it doesnt mean it isnt being talked about.
peace
bobby d
ps what about the two other issues i mentioned.
bobby d
Bobby,
How right you are about Bob Foraker, the receptonist at County Complex, if that's who Clay was refering to, sometimes if he isn't there, someone else responds across the hallway!
Foraker has given me dissinformation on many occassions/I dont think it's intentional, he just isn't on the same wavelength as the commissioners! Remember, he is their puppet! We must stay vigilant!
Anon 12:25 is right on target .Bob is great but, he is also nothing more then a Clerical aide! He knows of nothing that the Commissioners are lobbied about on a daily basis! Frankly, I'm surprised. As much accusation about campaign kick backs that goes on here, I would guess thoses doing the accusing know how thoses "Big Money " developers work! They Damn sure ain't calling Bob Foracker about anything! You can bet Their ringin, Peyton,Fitos,Stone's phones off the hook!
Folks:
I hope it sounded like I was putting down Mr. Fouriker, he is a nice man, takes his job seriously and does what he is paid to do, more than I can say about some goverment employees. My point was that this type of lobbying is done behind closed downs, which is ok, and Mr. Fouriker is not privey to that info.
Merry Christmas
Bobby D
YOU FOLKS UNDERESTIMATE BOB. HE KNOWS MORE ABOUT WHAT'S GOING ON IN COUNTY GOVERNMENT AND POLITICS THAN 99% OF THE PEOPLE ON THIS WEBSITE---INCLUDING BOBBY "THE RUMOR MONGER" D.
About Bobby D's comments
"like the mayor of belleview publicly saying she rents and apartment and has for 3-4 years but still gets her homestead exemption and the banner wont report it. so we possibly have 2 politicians one might have a live in boyfriend who has his kids in the wrong school and a mayor who gets a homestead exemption on a house that she didnt live in for 3-4 years and publicly says so and files her campaign treasury report with her apartment but the banner does nothing"
First of all I hear people refer to the star banner as yesterday's news tommorrow! They won't last much longer.
Now, is it true about the mayor of belleview falsely claiming a homestead exemption? Isn't that criminal? Wouldn't that be easy enough to investigate?
Maybe if the star banner did real news reporting and broke this story they'd have more readers!
freedie
i dont start rumors, bob knows a lot of what is going on but like i said the people lobbying the commissioners arent calling bob to see what he can find out. good way for him to lose his job. secondly mayor of belleview. villie smith is investigating, they have been faxed the mayors treasury report that states her apartments address. they have an apartment lease with her name on it and an affidavit from the mayor that states that she lives in the house that the people of belleview knows she doesnt live in. the city sent out a letter stating the mayors new address is..... everyone knows its up to villie to do the right thing, will he, i hope so
Villie Smith do the right thing? That would be a first!
Obvously, Smith has to check and get approval from 'the good ole boys' first! He's such a wimp and always has been!! In my opinion!
Do the right and common sense thing for once Villie!!!
Commissioner Amsden has informed me via e-mail that he is unaware of this casino request. He spoke to the zoning dept who knew nothing but had received inquirys.
None of the other commissioners have responded to individual e-mails sent yesterday at around 2:30. I waited to communicate until after the Commission meeting.
Clayton Ellsworth
Update :
Commissioner Stone has informed me "no knowledge of a casino" goes on to say "there has been some talk about the possibility of a new horse racing track "
Clayton Ellsworth
Well! well!
That's interesting given that a certain blogger on this site calls the Commissioners 'liars' because they told them one thing at lunch they would be voting for 'the MRMC' debacle and then changed their vote! Now we are suppossed to beleive what they say! Joke! Joke! I'll bet it comes out and Bobby is proven to be right again!!!!! Time will tell!
clayton:
i would like to make you a proposition. if by the end of the month there is no paramutual license filled with the county I will buy you lunch. if there is one, you buy me lunch.
either way i win because if im wrong i still get to meet you.
what do you say. do you accept
Merry Christmas
Bobby D
If there is a license filed , it will not be for a "major gambling facility " "on a large parcel of land ", which I interpret to mean a casino.
I accept your wager if it stipulates the above which is the topic.
Clayton Ellsworth
Card room is being shopped for south Marion county, right Gisela?
Card games beat Jai Alai and horse racing for profits. Money still talks. Could get 3 votes.
clayton:
my offer is as it was on my last post. if there is a paramutual license filled with the county before the end of the month you take me out to lunch if there isnt i take you. this whole thing about big piece of property/casino blah blah blah. its increased gambling, people said i didnt know what i was saying. clayton define large piece of land, for me its and acre, define casion for me its a place where you gamble. does it matter how big the room is. a place where you gamble is a casino, its increased gambling. some call it a card room, slot room whatever. all i heard was Bob Forker said this and this commissioner said that and bob foriker nows everything and if clayton doesnt know it isnt true.
clayton once again. do you accept my offer. paramutual licese for a gambling facility in the south part of the county in 30 days. i am willing to step out and make the offer, have the courage to put your money where your mouth is.
peace
Bobby D
Bobby,
I started to respond to Claytons post earlier and decided I would see if you called it like I saw it! You did, and all I can say is he wants to nit-pick every litte detail/this person must be a lawyer, teacher or someone who doesn't know diddlysquat and will do anything to avoid meeting you in public!!
I don't think the county can issue a paramutuel license. Doesn't that have to first have state approval. There are state laws on the books regulating this type of gambling. So, any action by the county commissioners is a secondary action. I'd be surprised if anything is even brought to the commissioners in 30 days. More like 9-12 months.
anonymous:
i think you are right about a paramutual license being a state license. i do know that for the knights of columbus bingo that they have to go through the county. whatever the particulars are, a gambling facility will be coming to the south part of the county. i think they have to go for a zoning change first on the property and then when they get the zoning change they will officially apply for the license. within the next 30 days there will be a move by a group of investors to open a gambling facility in the south part of the county. clayton, are we on for lunch or what.
Merry Christmas
Bobby D
CASINO UPDATE
Early Thursday morning I was advised that the Isle Of Capri corporation [NASDQ symbol ISLE ] is proposing an approximately $100 million quarter horse / casino near Bellevue.
Some financial facts on ISLE, fiscal year 2008 ending April 30, 2008.
1.$1,125,350 Billion in revenues
2.$96,000,000 million loss amounting to -$3.16 per share. ISLE has not made a profit since 2006 when it turned in a meager .28 a share.
3.Assets of $1,974,170
4. long term debt $1,497,590 [ 88% 0f assets ]
5.$91,000,790 Cash to pay current liabilities of $183,000,440 [ about twice as much debt as cash ]
5. $15,000,940 in working capital
6. Free cash flow -$170,000,590
Because of heavy losses, poor balance sheet, negative cash flow and a very weak commercial paper market; I doubt that ISLE will be able to raise $100 million. They probaly will have problems with the debt they already have.
I have advised the Commmision of these financials.
I accept Bobby D's bet although filing for a license with the state , then in Marion County, would seem to me to be an exercise in futility.
Clayton Ellsworth
Clayton:
Since I believe in supporting your local community. How about Plaza lunch in Belleview. It is good home cooking and cheap. Let me know when you want to take me.
Merry Christmas
Bobby D
wow! very nice way of handeling things gentleman!I'm impressed!
We will wait and see with baited breath [ whatever that means ] as mom used to say.
Watching my dogs chase squirrels is more exciting than Quarter Horse racing.
Even cockroach racing is more exciting for some. When Pete Rose did his federal time in Kentucky, according to other inmates, he would bet on cockroach fights. What a guy, what a sport ?
Clayton Ellsworth
Hey Clayton:
I used to have a dog track program autographed by Pete Rose. I met him at Derby Lane dog track in the day. he was one intens guy. Looking forward to meeting you at lunch
Merry Christmas
Bobby D
Bobby D, why do you insist on gaining agreement from Clayton Ellsworth? He's just another opinion and because he posts his name it doesn't make him any more knowledgeble than the next person. Sometimes I agree with him and sometimes he just sounds like a know it all curmudgeon.
Point well taken
Merry Christmas
Bobby D
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